The Tortoise Table

Hi

I’m getting an Indian star hatchling and would like to check out my set up. First things first is the whole Viv to table debate.

I understand the feeling on Vivs but how do people obtain the correct temps and humidity with these open top enclosures if that’s the way to go.

With the star 35 basking I’m sure could be achieved but back ground temps between 24 and 30 would just not be possible in open top? And also higher humidity I think I would struggle there also.

Any advice on this would be appreciated.

Hi Norm -- nice to hear from you again.

Yes, I've seen in a couple of places where people keep Indian Stars in a viv, but I think the overall view is that they should be kept in an open-topped table. Here is the advice sheet from the Royal Veterinary College https://www.rvc.ac.uk/Media/Default/Bea ... 022-jh.pdf
and they recommend an open-topped enclosure.

I don't have personal experience of keeping Indian Stars, but I know they have a high requirement for calcium and Vitamin D3 (through a good UVB light), and they shouldn't be kept with other tortoises, because they are sensitive to pathogens that might be harmless to another species but can be toxic to Stars. Do you still have your Western Hermann's and how is he doing?

Regarding keeping the temperature and humidity right, I think it will be very similar to your Hermann's. If you have a good heat/light bulb that can be raised and lowered (I think this is essential for keeping any tortoise), you can just raise or lower it to increase or decrease the temperature as needed. I always recommend a digital thermometer with a display unit and a separate probe at the end of a wire than can be lowered into the circle of light under the lamp and is at about the height of the tortoise. It's very useful to have one with a Max/Min facility so that you can see how hot or how cold it got since you last looked. You can get them in lots of places, but this is the one I use: https://www.pharmacy-equipment.co.uk/pr ... er-tmm105/

Regarding temperatures, I think the range at the warm end of the table should be between about 28C - 35C, and that won't be difficult to achieve. I think the background/cooler end of the table should be about 20C - 24C and unless your table is very long, that shouldn't be difficult either (although obviously the ambient temperature of your room will have an effect. I have a 7' long table for my Horsfields, and it is easy to achieve 30C or more at the hot end. If the room itself is cold, I sometimes turn on another lamp that is further down the table just to make sure that it is at least 20C at the cool end. For an Indian Star that needs good UVB I would use a heat/light bulb and then a fluorescent UVB tube that is long enough to cover most of the table, and in that way you get better exposure to UVB than from one mercury vapour bulb hanging at one end.

Regarding humidity, many people just spray the substrate and occasionally the tortoise 2 - 3 times a week, and others have a humid hide for them (if you need instructions on how to build a humid hide I can find them for you), but they don't need to be kept excessively humid, and I think that spraying a couple of times a week should be fine.

Actually I've just found a very good care sheet for Indian Stars that I wasn't aware of. It's published by the Norfolk Tortoise Club, which is a very respectable group, so I think I would trust the advice there. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... ESHEET.pdf

Do let us know how you get on, and send us a photo when he arrives!

Nina

Hi Nina

Thanks for more info always appreciated. Unfortunately my western passed and due to that I was not intending to get another as I couldn’t really find out why he did so really put me off as I wasn’t sure if maybe I’d done something wrong. Hard with no answers. But I thought again and decided I wanted to again.

But onto happier news and the new arrival. I’m just worried due to over night temps it dropping to low in my house it’s not the best at retaining heat and I think I’d always be worrying that it’s to cold with a table.

He would be my only tort so no worry on crossing disease etc and I do have a good t5 high uvb output along with uva. And I’ve got the thermometers with the min and max so I’ll be able to test it out.

Just need to make the decision on table or viv I think I’d honestly be more comfortable with the viv but don’t want to make any bad decisions esp after loosing my western.

Hi Nina

Thanks for more info always appreciated. Unfortunately my western passed and due to that I was not intending to get another as I couldn’t really find out why he did so really put me off as I wasn’t sure if maybe I’d done something wrong. Hard with no answers. But I thought again and decided I wanted to again.

But onto happier news and the new arrival. I’m just worried due to over night temps it dropping to low in my house it’s not the best at retaining heat and I think I’d always be worrying that it’s to cold with a table.

He would be my only tort so no worry on crossing disease etc and I do have a good t5 high uvb output along with uva. And I’ve got the thermometers with the min and max so I’ll be able to test it out.

Just need to make the decision on table or viv I think I’d honestly be more comfortable with the viv but don’t want to make any bad decisions esp after loosing my western.

For overnight temperatures you could alway just use a CHE (ceramic heat emitter). These are a little bit like a ceramic light bulb -- so hangs above like a light bulb but is ceramic so gives off no light, and you can attach them to a thermostat which is set to a temperature, so they will go on and off as needed to maintain the heat. I used to have one for my tortoise when I lived in a very cold house.
Ceramic heat emitter: https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/swell- ... t-emitters
Thermostats: I used a Habistat one, as they are a good brand: https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/reptil ... hermostats

I'm so sorry to hear about your Hermann's -- that must have been devastating for you. Was he ill for long, or did it happen suddenly? Do you have a good reptile vet that you could use in case you need medical advice? We have a list of recommended vets that I could pass on to you if you need one.

Nina

That’s actually why I use for basking lamp on a stat is that not a good idea or ok? Then obvs have a led strip like for ambient light and the t5 tube for the uvb.

Thank you. He went down hill quick and one regret was not knowing a good reptile vet. I know vets try best but if you have a good reptile vet in the Cambridge/Peterborough area that would be fantastic. I found one along way away but sadly was too late by time organized getting there.

Hi Norm,

Sorry but not sure what your first sentence means. Are you already using a basking lamp on a thermostat? That is fine then. Having the T5 UVB tube is great too (do remember that all UVB sources should be replace every year or 18 mos (I can explain why if you're interested). You probably don't need the LED ambient light, but it's not a problem and might well add something to your enclosure.

That is so sad about your tortoise going downhill so quickly -- it does happen. It's really important to use a reptile ('exotics') vet. We have a list of recommended vets, organised by county, here: https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/tor ... s-by-area/ and I can see there are a couple in the Cambridge area -- but sometimes a vet in another county can actually be closer to you than one in your own county, depending on where you live, so do look around. Re the entries on our list or any other practice you find -- always phone them first to check if their 'exotics' vet is still there, because vets change practices and we aren't always notified. Sometimes it's a good idea to take your tortoise for a general check-up when you receive him, in case he is carrying parasites of any sort (so if you do that then take a sample of poo with you).

Good luck and do come back with any other questions you have.

Best,
Nina