Age
Age
Hi! I know from reading the posts it is not easy to age a tortoise. We've had our Horsfield, Thor, for 4 weeks now. We were told by the reptile store he (not actually sure what gender) was a year old but he weighs 113g and reading through the forum posts that isn't the weight of a year-old tortoise. I'm really worried about overfeeding him (that's why I was looking through the posts.) Do you think he shows signs of being overfed if he is actually only a year or do you think he could be older?
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Re: Age
Hi Siobhan,
Isn't Thor a handsome little chappie!
It's almost impossible to tell the age of a tortoise (unless you know his hatching date), because tortoises grow at different rates, depending on how much they are fed. Thor's shell looks fine to me, but there is a rather large growth ring (a lighter, slightly yellow and that runs around just above the first row of scutes) that indicates he has grown a bit fast. 113g is big for a one year old, so he is either slightly older than that or has grown fairly quickly (I would expect him to be about 60g or 70g after a year).
Horsfields have huge appetites, and their food intake needs to be monitored to ensure they don't grow too fast and develop deformed shells (pyramiding). If you think you've been feeding him too much, don't beat yourself up about it because this is a really common problem with Horsfields. The reason for this is that in the wild they live in areas with long hot summers (during which the aestivate) and long cold winters (during which they hibernate). Some field studies a while ago estimated that they are only awake for 3 months a year, and during that time they are sort of programmed to just binge eat, because that is their food intake for the whole year. In captivity of course we give them lovely meals every day and that can result in them growing too quickly.
So what you need to do is to monitor Thor's weight and adjust his diet accordingly. There are some rough guidelines: some people say all they can eat in 15 minutes, once a day; some people say as many leaves, flowers, etc. as would make a little blanked to just cover his shell once a day, but really the best way is to monitor weight. What you want to aim for is a weight gain of -- on average -- 1g - 3g per month. That's just an average, and some months he'll gain more and some less, but it's a guide. So do keep a record and then adjust his diet as necessary.
Hope that helps, and please don't hesitate to ask any questions. Finally -- just to say that it looks like you've given him a really nice tortoise table, with a good soil-based substrate, so well done, as you've given him a good start in life.
Nina
Isn't Thor a handsome little chappie!
It's almost impossible to tell the age of a tortoise (unless you know his hatching date), because tortoises grow at different rates, depending on how much they are fed. Thor's shell looks fine to me, but there is a rather large growth ring (a lighter, slightly yellow and that runs around just above the first row of scutes) that indicates he has grown a bit fast. 113g is big for a one year old, so he is either slightly older than that or has grown fairly quickly (I would expect him to be about 60g or 70g after a year).
Horsfields have huge appetites, and their food intake needs to be monitored to ensure they don't grow too fast and develop deformed shells (pyramiding). If you think you've been feeding him too much, don't beat yourself up about it because this is a really common problem with Horsfields. The reason for this is that in the wild they live in areas with long hot summers (during which the aestivate) and long cold winters (during which they hibernate). Some field studies a while ago estimated that they are only awake for 3 months a year, and during that time they are sort of programmed to just binge eat, because that is their food intake for the whole year. In captivity of course we give them lovely meals every day and that can result in them growing too quickly.
So what you need to do is to monitor Thor's weight and adjust his diet accordingly. There are some rough guidelines: some people say all they can eat in 15 minutes, once a day; some people say as many leaves, flowers, etc. as would make a little blanked to just cover his shell once a day, but really the best way is to monitor weight. What you want to aim for is a weight gain of -- on average -- 1g - 3g per month. That's just an average, and some months he'll gain more and some less, but it's a guide. So do keep a record and then adjust his diet as necessary.
Hope that helps, and please don't hesitate to ask any questions. Finally -- just to say that it looks like you've given him a really nice tortoise table, with a good soil-based substrate, so well done, as you've given him a good start in life.
Nina
Re: Age
Thank you for your reply, Nina. This site has been so helpful!
He likes to bury himself right down in the substrate to sleep. We've lost him in it a couple of times
Do they always sleep like that or is he getting ready to hibernate? We weren't going to hibernate him this year but should we? From looking around it seemed like people didn't hibernate them till they were 4.
Sorry about all the questions. I don't like not knowing, it makes me nervous lol.
He likes to bury himself right down in the substrate to sleep. We've lost him in it a couple of times
Do they always sleep like that or is he getting ready to hibernate? We weren't going to hibernate him this year but should we? From looking around it seemed like people didn't hibernate them till they were 4.Sorry about all the questions. I don't like not knowing, it makes me nervous lol.
Re: Age
Hi Siobhan,
Horsfields are a burrowing species and love to bury themselves completely, and dig tunnels when they are outdoors, so he's just being a normal Horsfield.
I think that as you have only just got him, you shouldn't hibernate him this year. Tortoises have to be in the very best of health before hibernating, and for that reason we recommend having a tortoise for at least a year before hibernating him, in order to get to know him and all his little ways, so that you will know if he is a bit off colour. When you are ready to hibernate we can send you really good instructions for preparation for hibernation (which is very important), and the hibernation itself -- just let us know.
Horsfields do, however, have a strong hibernation instinct and sometimes they will sort of go into a hibernation mode by not waking up in the mornings and being generally lethargic and not wanting to eat, so you will need to persuade him to stay awake, and we can advise you on that as well. In the meantime, however, Thor is just being a typical Horsfield, and burying himself at night. I remember well the first morning that I came downstairs and thought mine had some how escaped because she wasn't in her table ---- only to find that she had buried herself completely!
Nina
Horsfields are a burrowing species and love to bury themselves completely, and dig tunnels when they are outdoors, so he's just being a normal Horsfield.
I think that as you have only just got him, you shouldn't hibernate him this year. Tortoises have to be in the very best of health before hibernating, and for that reason we recommend having a tortoise for at least a year before hibernating him, in order to get to know him and all his little ways, so that you will know if he is a bit off colour. When you are ready to hibernate we can send you really good instructions for preparation for hibernation (which is very important), and the hibernation itself -- just let us know.
Horsfields do, however, have a strong hibernation instinct and sometimes they will sort of go into a hibernation mode by not waking up in the mornings and being generally lethargic and not wanting to eat, so you will need to persuade him to stay awake, and we can advise you on that as well. In the meantime, however, Thor is just being a typical Horsfield, and burying himself at night. I remember well the first morning that I came downstairs and thought mine had some how escaped because she wasn't in her table ---- only to find that she had buried herself completely!
Nina
Re: Age
He is very sleepy in the mornings. It takes him a while to get going. Is that normal for tortoises?
We won't hibernate him this year. If you could send information about keeping him awake if he shows signs of trying, that would he great.
He usually sleeps in his moss hut or buried but the last couple of nights he's slept out in the open space. Is that normal?
Thank you for your advise!
We won't hibernate him this year. If you could send information about keeping him awake if he shows signs of trying, that would he great.
He usually sleeps in his moss hut or buried but the last couple of nights he's slept out in the open space. Is that normal?
Thank you for your advise!
Re: Age
Hi Siobhan,
For Horsfields it is sort of normal to be sleepier at this time of year. I have one Horsfield who doesn't want to wake up in the morning another who is up and about at first light. It is, of course, possible that the lethargy is due to something else (worms is most likely), but he is so young that I doubt it and for the time being I would proceed as if he is just going into hibernation mode and try to break that habit.
It seems like he is getting up by himself at the moment, but just not as early as usual. That is OK. But if he gets to the point where he just doesn't want to wake up in the morning, then what I do with mine is to get her up in the morning and put her under the light. Often she will stay there and warm up and then eat, but just as often she will trundle back into her corner and sleep again. So I get her up a second time and put her under the light again, and sometimes a third or fourth time. I wouldn't do it more than that because you don't want to stress him, but I find that after about a fortnight of doing this (repeatedly putting them under the light) then they will usually start waking up themselves again. It can take a while.
When he is warmed up under the lights, you can offer him food -- and if he is reluctant to eat you can offer the food by hand (they like to be hand fed, but it can become a bad habit and they don't want to eat by themselves any more, so keep it to a minimum). If he goes off his food then sometimes you can tempt him by rubbing the juice of a cucumber on what you want him to eat -- they quite like the smell of food with cucumber on it.
Sleeping anywhere they like is absolutely normal. Usually they like to sleep in a small cramped space, but sometimes they just sleep in the open and there doesn't seem to any particular reason for it.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
Nina
For Horsfields it is sort of normal to be sleepier at this time of year. I have one Horsfield who doesn't want to wake up in the morning another who is up and about at first light. It is, of course, possible that the lethargy is due to something else (worms is most likely), but he is so young that I doubt it and for the time being I would proceed as if he is just going into hibernation mode and try to break that habit.
It seems like he is getting up by himself at the moment, but just not as early as usual. That is OK. But if he gets to the point where he just doesn't want to wake up in the morning, then what I do with mine is to get her up in the morning and put her under the light. Often she will stay there and warm up and then eat, but just as often she will trundle back into her corner and sleep again. So I get her up a second time and put her under the light again, and sometimes a third or fourth time. I wouldn't do it more than that because you don't want to stress him, but I find that after about a fortnight of doing this (repeatedly putting them under the light) then they will usually start waking up themselves again. It can take a while.
When he is warmed up under the lights, you can offer him food -- and if he is reluctant to eat you can offer the food by hand (they like to be hand fed, but it can become a bad habit and they don't want to eat by themselves any more, so keep it to a minimum). If he goes off his food then sometimes you can tempt him by rubbing the juice of a cucumber on what you want him to eat -- they quite like the smell of food with cucumber on it.
Sleeping anywhere they like is absolutely normal. Usually they like to sleep in a small cramped space, but sometimes they just sleep in the open and there doesn't seem to any particular reason for it.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
Nina
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