Hibernation peeing problems with Marginated!

[Geewil0]

Hi everyone! I hope you’re all well. I’m also hoping someone can advise me on what to do about my 6 year old male Marginated.

I hibernated him for the first time in winter 2017 using the fridge method, following all the usual advice (6 week fasting period, regular baths, decreasing temperature and hours of light slowly) the 10 week long first hibernation went amazingly smoothly and he awoke at the start of springtime 2018 looking healthier and more energetic than ever.

Last winter I did everything exactly the same, however within 24hours of him being in the fridge he did a huge pee and I was advised to get him up and skip hibernation for that year.

Fast forward to this winter and I have yet again followed all the usual instructions, put him in and within 24hours he had done a pee again. I noted that someone on this site advised another keeper that if this happens this early on they should offer the tortoise a drink and put back into the fridge, so I did that yesterday, he drank a little and I dried him off and popped him back into the fridge. I’ve just been to check on him today and he’s done yet another pee, this time with a large amount of white urates.

Should I cut my losses and get him up and skip again for this year? I obviously don’t want him to dehydrate and die but also I’m aware it is detrimental to their long term health if they don’t hibernate, so I’m really unsure of the best way to go right now!

Sorry for the massively long message, I hope it made sense! Many thanks in advance for any advice

[Nina]

Hi Geewil0 (sorry, don't know your name), and welcome to The Tortoise Table. Gosh, you've had really bad luck there -- two years in a row! I do, reluctantly, think that you will need to get keep him awake now, as dehydration is a serious risk if they pee whilst in hibernation. As he wasn't really in proper hibernation yet, you could possibly start over again, feed him up for a month or so and then withdraw food for about three weeks.

You mentioned that you had fasted him for six weeks, but I've never seen that long a period recommended. With most adult tortoises the fasting period is four weeks, and for a six-year old tortoise it could be between three or four weeks. Do you know how much weight he lost in that six week period? If he didn't lose too much weight then I would say you could try again, which would mean feeding him for the month of January, and then fasting for the first three weeks of February, and then popping him into the fridge at the end of February. He could then stay there until the end of April and that means that when he wakes up there will be lots of nice food around outside. If, however, he did lose quite a bit of weight during that fasting period then I think that I would keep him up again this year. When he was in the fasting period, did you gradually reduce the hours of heat and light so that by the end of the fast and just before he was due to go into the fridge, he was in a very cold room with no heat or light at all? I think it might all depend on how much weight he lost during the fasting period, so if you could let us know his weight before the fast started and what it was when he went into the fridge that would help a lot.

You've really been very unlucky. A couple of years ago I had one of mine do a big wee the night before she was due to go into the fridge, but I was able to get enough water into her to allow her to hibernate, but it was quite a stressful time (lol, for me, not for her).

Nina
P.S. If you do have to keep him awake, I wouldn't worry too much about the long-term effects of two years without hibernating. Obviously hibernation is best for him, but as long as you can keep him awake, warm and eating well, he should be fine, and ready to hibernate properly next year.

[Geewil0]

Hi Nina, thanks so much for your speedy reply! (My name is Gee).

My bad, I had a brain fail when I typed my post, I meant 4 week fasting period, I think I must have got confused when I wrote his age! I stupidly didn’t weigh him before the fast began this time as he seemed in good health, but that was my mistake and next time I’ll be sure to weigh him before fasting begins, not just when I put him in the fridge.

I did gradually reduce hours of light and heat over the fasting period, and everything seemed to be going exactly as it should, he emptied his guts over the first couple of weeks of the fast, slowed right down and spent most of his time hiding away, we looked all set to go! But his bladder obviously had other ideas... I’m just so confused as to why everything went so well the first time around!

I’m really worried about the risk of dehydration so I’ll get him up I think, and see how it goes for the February-April idea. I guess there is always next year if not!

One last question, when I get him out of the fridge now should I offer food as soon as he is warmed up?
Many thanks again for your help

[Nina]

Hi Gee,

It sounds like you've been doing everything right and by the book and have just had such bad luck -- there's nothing to account for it, but hopefully next time around things will go smoothly.
It's a really good idea to keep the record of weight, etc. during that fasting period. I make a chart in advance of every day, with columns for date, hours of light and heat, weight, and any other comments. I pre-fill in the hours of light and heat, so I don't have to think about it as I go along -- I just look at the chart each day and adjust the hours accordingly, and then I fill in the weight at the beginning and also every week or two during the fasting time, plus any miscellaneous comments. It's a bit obsessive probably, but I've been doing it for a long time now and it's just sort of second nature (and reassuring, because if I didn't write it down I've forget for sure!).

Have attached a copy of the one I did for Doris last year (but actually you could use our Tortoise Observation records booklet for the same purpose and it would look a lot nicer).

As you've had such bad luck this year, you deserve a little treat, so just send me your address (send to nina@thetortoisetable.org.uk ) and I'll pop a complimentary one in the post to you. It's good for keeping all sorts of records in one place.

Nina
[attachment=0]Doris Wind Down 2018.jpg[/attachment]

[Geewil0]

Hi Nina, thank you SO much for your very kind and informative words! I will email you my address, I appreciate it!

I got him up earlier and after he warmed up and had a drink and a little bite to eat he seemed extremely pleased with himself

Many thanks again!