Bone idol Jemima

[Tarajane77]

Hello friends,
I'm asking about Jemima , who is a 3yr old Horsfield. I got her in the summer as her owner couldn't dedicate alot of time to her. She did tell me she is quite lazy, and was troublesome last winter barely waking or eating. She was previously housed in a viv with a companion, but she stripped their front legs of scales.

So she's had a worm test in August which was clear. She only has fresh weeds everyday, with nutrabol and calcium dust added every other day. She's housed in my living room in an open table on only top soil, has a ProT5 Arcadia 13% basking tube and heat lamp 12 hrs a day. Heat lamp temps are 32° and are checked daily, the rooms temp is 20° all day. I've monitored the overnight temps and they average 17.5°, but never been lower than 15°.

Her table has lots of stimulation and there is a terrecotta plant pot near to her heat lamp for a humid hide. She has a boxed hide in the cooler end also.

SO over the summer she's been active-ish, has been outside weather permitting daily and has eaten well. Once the weathers turned i put her in a little pen indoors daily for only half an hour so she gets some exercise.

SO MY QUESTION IS ...over the last few weeks she's certainly slowed down to almost dormant. Most days im having to evict her from her pot, then she will bask then eat then go back to bed but the last few days she's become zombie like. If i take her out of her pot and pop her under her light she can't keep her eyes open. All she wants to do is crawl back into her plant pot. She hasn't eaten now for 3 days, and I'm so upset. When i put food near to her she's just retracting away from it.

I need help...do i do another worm count...add an overnight heater..do i take the pot out in the day and block her cold hide up...do i wind her down to hibernate her. ..please help me i feel so lost and feel im failing her.

[lin]

Oh, your not in the least failing Jemima, Tara. She is just letting you know that she has had enough for this year and wants to wind down and sleep.
If thats what you want to go with and would like the wind down procedure article I will add it here as well as a hibernation sheet too. If there are any questions you have then get back to us and as she is fit and healthy I cannot see any reason she cant sleep the winter away.
If you are thinking about doing that and depending on her age I would take off two days of already not eating towards her big sleep.

Lin

https://www.tortoise-protection-group.o ... cedure.pdf
https://www.tortoise-protection-group.o ... Sept16.pdf

[Nina]

Hi Jody,

Great to hear from you, and this is just to let you know that I agree with all that Lin has said -- and I agree that Jemima is just telling you that she wants to hibernate. Horsfields have particularly strong hibernation instincts, and it can be really difficult to keep them awake if they are intent on sleeping. Sometimes if you wake them up in the morning and put them under the lamp, and then repeat that two or three times that day if they go straight back to bed,then after two or three weeks they will sort of give up on hibernation and wake up again -- but this isn't guaranteed, and if she isn't eating and has warm temperatures, then she will start losing body fat after a while.

So I would seriously consider hibernating. As you have only had her since the summer, we would normally not recommend hibernating so soon, as you might not be familiar enough with her to spot if she is off colour, but she might not give you that choice. If you do start winding her down, then at 3 years old (how much does she weigh?), you could probably wind her down for 2.5 - 3 weeks (depending on weight). Have a read of Lin's material and come back with any questions. Also, I think you could hibernate her for only about 8 weeks (again depending on her weight), as she is so young.

I know it's a big step to take -- all this hibernation stuff -- but if you can manage it then I think she will benefit from a nice hibernation during that harsh Derbyshire winter that will soon descend on you.

Cheers,
Nina

[Tarajane77]

Thankyou ladies,
I worry about her so much and in my heart i agree with everything you say but cannot comprehend withdrawing food from her...I KNOW, I KNOW

There's also the fridge situation we only have household fridges with NO freezer compartment. We could gladly give her a shelf but may need to store a few food items in there with her?? Would the odd door opening to acess butter and cheese distress her??

She is 389gs at present.

Another thing out of interest is an overnight room temp of 15° ok, or only ok if hibernating.

Another thing if i do hibernate her i will be needing your support despite the enclosed files...

Another thing she's just had two nibbles from her food plate, IF im to start countdown do i restart tomorrow??

OOH IM ALL CONFLICTED AND GETTING THAT AWFUL INDEGESTION AT BEDTIME.

Thankyou

[Nina]

As I always say, I am more stressed and worry more about my tortoises than I ever did when my son was growing up, so I know exactly what you are feeling.

Well, you could use your household fridge to hibernate her -- it's not ideal, and if you have more than one then I would definitely use the one that is opened less frequently, but it could work. You need to open the door once a day anyway, to give a nice exchange of air for her, so I don't think that opening a bit more often would be too bad (but i possible it's a good idea if the fridge isn't opened too often for the first fortnight, when she is settling in.

I don't think food items would bother her. You could put her in the salad drawer for more privacy I suppose, but that is usually at the bottom of the fridge where it's a couple of degrees colder. But it can work. Also, several people that I know this year have got those beer cooler table top fridges, and they can work well (Husky are the best brand). They cost just over a hundred quid, I think, but they are small and the advantage is that in the summer you will have somewhere you can keep your beer!

An overnight room temperature of about 15C is fine, but I wouldn't let it go below about 14C at least not until towards the end of wind down (and then it can go a bit lower).

If she has eaten anything at all then you need to start wind down from scratch. The reason is that if there is any food in the stomach when they go into hibernation, in can go bad and give off toxic gases, so you want a full bladder and an empty stomach.

At 389g I think a three week wind down is fine, but do make sure you bathe her frequently. Have a read of the articles on winding down and hibernation and let us know what you think.

Nina

[Tarajane77]

Thankyou ladies, alot for me to consider. Especially as the little madam has been really active today and cleared her plate!! However she still looks very tired and is moving slowly.

I think i need to give her the rest of this week and decide.

I have looked at Lins care sheets so i have the knowledge to implement. I really appreciate both of your help.

[Nina]

Good luck, Jody, and let us know how you get on.

Nina