To the shed to cool off before fridge. Advice please

[Autumn]

Hi all,

Thank you Lin and Nina for your help on previous thread, and to anyone else who might have some advice on this one.

I am winding down my 5YO male Hermanns for 24 days (four 6 day weeks) and we are now on day 15 with heat and light reducing daily to reach 4hrs in 3 days time. His weight has gone from 512g to 525g and currently 503g in last 2 weeks. Just a few concerns before he goes into the fridge if you don’t mind.

It’s now day 15 and he hasn’t pooped since day 1, other than urates on day 11 and 13. Is that normal?

He’s very active and I was worry he might be using up his fat reserves.

Regarding going into the shed for the last week, (TPG guide) other than the necessary soaks, do I just leave him in the dark shed in a closed box (for his safety), or in a dim shed in an open box for light, and what about drinking water? Do I give him a dish?

Thank you in advance,

[Nina]

Hi Sharon,

Just to check -- in your post below you said he went from 512g to 525g -- did he really gain weight, or did you mean he went from 525g to 512g? I'm assuming that he was originally 525g and has fallen steadily to 503g. I just checked my records for Doris, who is just a bit bigger than your tortoise.
2020 -- 659g at start, 25 day wind down, lost 33g
2021 -- 649g at start, 25 day wind down, lost 42g
2022 -- 662g at start, 25 day wind down, lost 31g
2023 -- 664g at start, 26 day wind down, lost 32g
So I hope that is reassuring. Yours has lost 22g after 15 days, and that amount should not get much bigger as the temperatures fall, so I think he'll be OK.

I'm surprised he's still really active, but as the temperature falls he should slow down and won't be using up body fat and should be fine. He still has some time to have another poop, but if he doesn't I wouldn't worry too much. It's possible that any food that was in his stomach is now down in his intestine, and that is fine (sometimes tortoises even have a poo while hibernating) -- it's just food in his stomach that he can't have. Also if you first weighed him after a meal and before a poop then he would have weighed more because of the meal he just had, which sort of doesn't count. Are you bathing him? Bathing him in lukewarm water now might encourage any food in there to move on.

Regarding the shed -- if the temperatures turn cold now then if he goes into a dark shed for 6 days then it's almost like he is in hibernation temperatures then. I think that as he is only just over 500g, I would put him in the shed for the last four days (not six), and that would give him a bit more time to move any food through his system before that), and I'd put him into hibernation on day 23 or 24, and not day 25. Just over 3 weeks should be fine for that weight.

I would put leave the top of the box open for the first day or so and then close the top so that it gets darker. I would hesitate to use a cardboard box as they can claw their way through the bottom of those if they have a mind do. As for water, I'm not sure, but mine have never had the energy to go over to the water bowl in the last week or two (but they're not drinkers from their bowl much anyway). What I would do is give him a bath in cool to tepid (not warm) water on the day before he goes into the fridge. He probably won't drink but he might take a bit of water up through his cloaca.

Does that help at all? Each tortoise is different and it's hard to compare the behaviour of one tortoise with another, but you're not alone in having concerns about things -- I was panicking the year that mine lost 42g in wind down(!), but she hibernated and came out fine.

Nina

[Autumn]

Hi Nina,

Great to get such a helpful reply. Thank you.

Regarding his weight, I was weighing him post soak daily in week one and the weights were 525, (grams) 518, 512, 511, 517, 525. (I thought he had taken on water; scales had female on same weight as previous day so seemed accurate.) After that it was 518 steadily down to 503. It is reassuring to see that he has lost 22g which seems in line with your own records.

I think he is slowing down now as the lights are reducing daily. I’m glad the lack of poop is nothing to worry about. I bathed him daily in week 1, am doing e/o day in weeks 2 and 3 and I'll put him in the shed for last 4 days with final bath the day before he goes into the fridge on day 24, as you suggested. I have a good dark plastic box with air holes for the shed.

This site is wonderful. It’s like a personalised service for each tortoise. I can’t tell you how much this helps.

Thanks to everyone involved.

Sharon

[Nina]

Hi Sharon,

How nice of you to say such nice things about us -- really makes it all worth while! I think you're right on track for a great hibernation (well, not for you, but for the tortoise, although I quite fancy tucking myself away somewhere nice and cozy and emerging when the winter has finished!).

I can't remember now if we sent you this article by the Tortoise Trust on hibernation. It's interesting, as they have revised their times for winding down according to weight and are now saying that if a tortoise is under 1kg it only requires 2 weeks of fasting, and that torts of 1kg to 1.5kg should have 3 weeks, and above that 4 weeks. I think I would still go with 3 weeks for a tortoise the weight of yours (and mine), but no need to go above that and you could go a day under if you think he has emptied his stomach: https://www.tortoisetrust.com/post/safe ... r-tortoise

So it sounds to me like you're all set to go (it's such a relief when they've settled down in the fridge) -- my two Horsfields move about in their boxes for a week or so (sometimes more) after they're in the fridge before they go quiet. I can hear them scratching and have to leave the room sometimes because I can't bear it!

Nina

[Autumn]

Hi Nina,

It’s great to get that document. Thank you.

I had no idea tortoises might move around for several days in the fridge. I thought the cold would keep them still. I really, really hope none of mine take too long to hibernate because that sounds quite unsettling.

Well here’s hoping for a good run. All is going well so far I think. Once again, I very much appreciate having such great help and advice on hand.

Best wishes,

Sharon

[Nina]

You might be all right with your Hermanns, Sharon. I have Horsfields and they are notoriously fidgety and late to settle in. It really is terrible to hear them scratching around in the fridge, and one year I left them to settle in for a fortnight before checking on them and when I opened Doris's box she had eyes wide open and was looking at me as if to say 'What have I ever done to you that you should stick me in a box and put me in this cold place?'

The good thing about most Horsfields is that once they do settle down they are great hibernators and can take lower temperatures than some other species. My two hibernate for just over 12 weeks and usually lose only 5g or 6g over that time.

Nina

[Autumn]

Goodness Nina, what a shock to find a ‘starved’ cold tortoise awake 2 weeks in. That had better not happen to me. Maybe I will be lucky and the Hermanns will just quiten down and do as they're bid.

[Nina]

I think you definitely have an air of authority and they will meekly bow to your will and settle in very nicely!

[attachment=0]tortoise sleeping.png[/attachment]

[Autumn]

I sure hope so.