Eating stones

[Angela]

Hello, my 2.5 year old Russian Horsefield started going off food and being lethargic a few weeks ago, and after a visit to the vets, we discovered she's been eating stones and was quite impacted. Relieved to say that we seem to be getting them out of the system naturally, with a lot of care and guidance from the vet...

But I need to prevent this behaviour moving forwards. Suffice to say she gets a varied diet, and has cuttle fish in her pen, plus I apply calcium vitamin supplements to her food, so she is getting enough calcium. But she has developed a penchant for seeking out dirty bits of natural chalk and trying to eat them - and indeed, other small bits of stone. She does this when I'm giving her a wider walk in the garden - weaving in and out of bushes and mooching along the soil. She just seems to explore everything by putting it in her mouth

I'm re-doing her outdoor enclosure this weekend with entirely new top soil and play sand mix to avoid ANY bits of chalk or stone being in her designated area. But she is adventurous and easily bored, so I try to give her at least 1-2 opportunities to walk around the wider garden a day (especially in the summer). I always supervise this for fear of the usual dangers, and have ensured it's all safe in terms of plants. However, what I can't realistically do is remove every tiny bit of chalk (or indeed little bit of rock that she thinks looks interesting).

So, do you have any advice on how to deter the behaviour? Currently standing over her and saying 'no' is getting me so far, but isn't viable in the long term. And she adores having the ability to walk around the wider garden, so I don't want to stop her having that fun. NB: I had thought "is she actually getting enough calcium, and is that the cause?" but the vet has confirmed that bone density etc are all good, so we don't think it's a lack of calcium that's driving it. More incessant curiosity!

Would welcome any advice you can offer. Thanks

[Nina]

Hi Angela, and welcome to The Tortoise Table.

Eating stones (especially white stones) is a fairly common problem with tortoises, and sometimes it is triggered by a desire for more calcium, but I think that sometimes it is just a bad habit, like biting your nails. Natural chalk actually contains a lot of calcium, and many people buy big chunks of natural chalk for tortoises to nibble on, but if she is swallowing small pieces whole then they probably aren't breaking down in her digestive system and being absorbed.

It's a very difficult problem, but here are my thoughts (and some questions):
1. How big is her outdoor enclosure? Could you possibly make it bigger -- like really big, with lots of big rocks maybe curved roof tiles to make a tunnel to walk through and also a hill to climb (Horsfields love climbing), and various plants (decorative grasses are good and I could recommend some)? Tortoises do get bored easily if they can see from one end of their enclosure to the other end without interruption, so if you can break up the sightlines it mght make her ordinary enclosure more interesting for her and she might not feel the need to walk around the garden as much. What are the walls of the enclosure made of (if they can see out then they tend to want to get out, so it's always better to have solid walls).

2. It sounds like she is getting enough calcium, but can you tell me which brand of calcium supplement you are putting on her food, and are you wetting the leaves/flowers etc. so that the supplement sticks to it and isn't wasted? If you are using a calcium + VitaminD3 supplement then that should be given three or four times a week at most, and on other days you can just give her lots of plain calcium (in the form of limestone flour or pure food grade calcium carbonate powder that you can buy on the internet). With the supplements that contain Vitamin D3, you need to be careful and follow the manufacturer's instructions on dosage (because it is possible to overdose on D3), but on the alternate days when you give pure calcium carbonate powder you can give loads because you can't really overdose on that. Does she eat her cuttlefish (some tortoises do and some won't eat it until it has been weathered by sitting out in rain and elements for months)?

3. You might have to check her pen after you have put the new substrate in, because I always find that little stones in the natural soil underneath always somehow work their way to the top, which is very irritating!

I'm not sure what else to suggest, and I know it's a problem. Hopefully someone else will come on with a foolproof solution to your problem!

Nina

[Angela]

Thank you so much for this. I'm making the (revised!) enclosure as large as possible this weekend and will do as you suggest re: sightlines. You're right, if she can see the perimeter, she gets bored. We're using logroll for the edging (so she can't see out) and will aim to make it as interesting as possible. Will upload pics after the weekend.

Would appreciate any advice you have on grasses - I have a number of edible plants I was going to add but some grasses for extra concealment, hiding and breaking sightlines will go down well, I suspect.

The calcium brand I use is Komodo Nutrical (which does indeed have D3). That's a great tip re: limestone flour/pure food grade calcium carbonate - I will get onto that. She doesn't really touch her cuttlefish (as you say, it typically has to be quite weathered and she seems to have been preferring the chalky bits in the soil) but I'm hoping by limiting her ability to get to the other stuff, she'll re-engage with the cuttlefish.

Thanks so much for this - really appreciate your detailed thoughts. I also thought she was digesting the little bits of chalk she was picking up but evidently not. It's not helped by the fact that she's a born explorer so anything and everything that's new or different has to be explored (often with her mouth!). PLease let me know on grasses and I will send photos after the weekend to show the revised set up. Thank you.

[Nina]

Hi Angela,

I think your plans sound great, and I really look forward to seeing the revamped enclosure! One tip about log roll. I would put it so that the inside bit (showing the wires that hold it together) are facing outwards. I use logroll for my walls and I once found one of my Horsfields escaping by using the wires as a stepladder to climb out (I know it sound impossible, but I have a little video of her doing it). Horsfields are great natural climbers and burrowers. It's also good to get the tallest logroll (Ithink they do 18"), and bury it into the ground as deep as possible so that she can't dig under and out. Just to show you I'm not over emphasising their ability to climb, I've attached two photos of Horsfields doing what they love to do (sort of defying gravity):
[attachment=2]IMG_7026 (Copy).JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=2]IMG_7026 (Copy).JPG[/attachment]

I also find that a curved roof tile like this https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/pro ... w0EALw_wcB , if you happen to have one lying around, makes a nice hidey place/tunnel/hill to climbover. Have attached a photo of mine standing on top of theirs:
[attachment=2]IMG_7026 (Copy).JPG[/attachment]

Regarding grass, any of the Carex genus that don't grow too tall are nice (there are some nice green white striped ones that you can get. I personally like one called Carex 'Frosted Curls', which grows straight up at first and then falls over making a fountain-like structure, and my tortoises love to shelter underneath it. It looks like this: https://gardenvariety.com.au/product/st ... -by-storm/ It can get a bit big, but you can cut it back hard and it grows back quickly, and seeds itself everywhere, so you will always have plenty. I have loads growing out of cracks in pavements, etc., and if you email me your address I will pop one in the post to you (it will be small but it should grow quickly). My email is nina@thetortoisetable.org.uk And if you Google 'carex, green and white, small' you'll see lots of photos of the variegated ones.

Re the cuttlefish, you can always scrape some of it onto leaves, etc. with your fingernail. I always wet the leaves/flowers, etc. before I sprinkle the powder on, so that it sticks to the leaves and isn't wasted.

Finally, you might be interested to know why Horsfield tortoises don't have a 'e' (horsefield) in the middle of their names. It's because they are named after Thomas Horsfield, a 19th century American naturalist and explorer who discovered them.

Nina

[Angela]

Wow Nina - thank you so much. So much great information there - and those pics are incredible. I thought my tortoise had Houdini aspirations but yours are quite the escapologists.

I have indeed got the 18" log roll and I've picked up some Carex, Sedge and Festuca grasses based on what was on the Tortoise Table. I do want to ask about Stipa - I have a number of these grasses already that I could put in the enclosure (long and wispy as you say) but they're not mentioned on the Tortoise Table so wanted to check your thoughts.

I'll email you separately and thank you so much for all of this. Busy day ahead!

Thank you again

[Nina]

Hi Angela,

Those two escape photos aren't of my tortoises, but it is amazing how agile they are, despite not being well designed for climbing vertical surfaces!

Stipa should be absolutely fine, and we really should have an entry on the database for it. I have a Stipa tenuissima in my front garden and it's such a delicate pretty grass that waves about in a breeze.

I'll reply to your email separately.

Cheers,
Nina

[elenagilbert]

Since she may be eating out of curiosity or boredom, provide more stimulating items in her enclosure, such as safe climbing areas, hideaways, or chewable toys, to keep her engaged.

[Noahenett]

Have you considered providing her with safe, edible alternatives to chew on, like natural wood or specific tortoise-safe toys, to redirect her curiosity away from stones and chalk?

[JohnBaxter]

Yes, my turtle is the same. I am re-doing his cage, lots of creative ideas coming up. Thanks so much!