Grass, moss, and earth

[TortyPerson2]

Hi all,

Gonzales (9 year old Mediterranean spur thigh) has been in his outdoor enclosure when the weather's been nice this summer. The enclosure includes two large trays containing turf with grass and some moss growing on it. I believe its unusual for this species but he loves grass and I just noticed that he has eaten all the grass and the underlying moss in one corner, leaving bare earth which it looks like he has managed to eat quite a bit of also. Is this going to be a problem? I'm concerned about impaction.

Thanks for your answer to this and previous questions.

TP

[lin]

Oh my! What a beauty he is.
The grass and a bit of moss wouldn’t be harmful to Gonzales, some species that don’t usually eat grassed do take a liking to it. I know Nina’s two horsfields readily eat grass. , and I doubt the earth would be a problem either in the wild they would encounter it and if they felt the need they would have a nibble now and again and It doesn’t look like he is eating it on mass. Watch that he poops regularly to be sure it is passing through.

Lin

[Nina]

Hi TP,

Sounds like Gonzales has had a good summer! I had my response all written and then saw that Lin had posted before me (so sorry if some of mine below repeats what Lin has said).

It's funny about grass, as Horsfields are known to not like grass much at all, but two years ago both of mine developed a taste for it and will happily nibble grass all day long.

It's a difficult question about the impaction. I think what probably will happen is that the soil will go right through him and come out the other end. And he might not have been eating soil as much as you think, because moving it around when digging etc. can make it look like some has gone when in fact it has just been displaced.

Keep an eye on him and make sure he is pooing regularly and isn't straining when he is pooing. Sometmes tortoises will eat a bit of substrate if they feel the need for more calcium or particular minerals. Does he have a regular calcium and vitamin supplement that you dust on his food? If I were in your place I would be asking questions too, but I'm sure he'll be fine (but do let us know how he gets on).

Cheers,
Nina

[TortyPerson2]

Thanks Lin and Nina, that's reassuring. He does have a cuttlefish and we sprinkle calcium/D3 powder onto his leaves every other day. Is that enough? Anyway I'll watch to check he's pooing.

Thanks again,

TP

[Nina]

I think the supplements you are giving are fine, so just keep an eye on him and hopefully everything will be well.

Nina

[traumashaky]

It’s possible that eating soil could lead to impaction, especially if consumed in large amounts. Monitor Gonzales for any signs of digestive issues or lethargy. If you're concerned, consulting a reptile vet would be a good precaution.

[Daniel]

Although eating earth can cause impaction in tortoises in captivity, I don't consider it a problem if the tortoise in question has a high fibre diet. My Herman's does eat earth and small stones very regularly in the garden summer months. But I do look though the poops that she produces and the stones are in the poops, which suggests that the fibre in the diet helps move the stones and dirt though the digestive system.

I think that if the tortoise has a low fibre diet, this is where the problems start. If a tortoise is on a salad diet which is mainly water, there is no fibre to help the dirt and stones to move along, and this is where an impaction happens in my opinion.

I am also being to think more about why tortoises eat stones, especially any that are not limestone, could this be more to do with digestion? As apposed to being lack of calcium in the diet?

[Nina]

That's a good question, Daniel.

No one knows exactly why tortoises eat stones, but they do -- and they do in the wild as well. The theory is that it can be a need for calcium -- particularly if they go only for white stones; also to get extra needed minerals (but I'm unclear as to how the minerals get from the stones into the tortoise's system, because usually the stones just go straight through); as an aid for digestion (to help move the fibrous bits along); and I've also heard something about maintaining intestinal bacteria (but haven't heard the explanation of this).

Nina

[Daniel]

Hello Nina, hope your keeping well. I am really not buying into the extra calcium from stones as much now. I really do watch my tortoise and what she gets up to. When I have seen her eat stones, they are all different colours, and my ground has mainly brown and black stones in the ground, which wouldn't represent limestone or chalk. These aminals are really not stupid, just watch how they smell the odd weed that grows in their enclosure and if it's not edible they won't touch it, and just move on. The other thing why I personally think that it could be to do with digestion, is because they have a beak, instead of teeth. Birds have beaks and eat stones also, which definitely aids digestion.

Hopefully in my lifetime there will be some research to come up with this answer, and solve this puzzle.

[Nina]

Hi Daniel,

I agree absolutely -- my Doris used to go for white stones before other ones, but that might be because they were brighter and more obvious to her. Mine don't eat many stones, but I do think that it's possible that they could aid in digestion. I will keep searching to see if there has been any proper research done on this subject.

I hope your tortoises are well. Do you just have Hermann's tortoises now, or do you have Iberas as well (I think you said you were interested in Ibera subspecies). And have you reconsidered keeping Egyptians again?

Cheers,
Nina

[Daniel]

Good afternoon Nina

I am currently keeping only a single Herman's tortoise at the moment, and she's doing great. Although she does get herself into lots of trouble though out the summer season outside. Yes your correct about my interest in Asian Minor tortoise aka the ibera tortoise, and I am always on the lookout for rehome of this subspecies. Infact I have an interest in all the Greek tortoise (Testudo graeca) species of North Africa and Western Asia.

As for Egyptian tortoises, I would love to keep them again, and if the opportunity arises in the near future I would definitely keep this very special species. The issue with Egyptians is finding good stock and the price of these now, which is extremely high as not many breeders in the UK. In fact I only know of one person in Scotland who has them regularly for sale, and most of these go into collections in Europe, where they are kept more often than the UK, outside of zoo or conservation collections. Also these are extremely expensive as tortoises go now too.

Regards Daniel.

[Nina]

We'll keep you in mind if we get an Ibera for rehoming (you can look at the rehoming section on this forum, but it's probably better to look at our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/TheTortoiseTable .

I have a friend in Kent who keeps, and I think breeds Egyptian tortoises, and I could check with her to see if she sells them. She would be very particular as to where they went, but as you have long experience with Egyptians it might be an option. Do you want me to ask her?

Nina

[Daniel]

At the moment Nina, it's the wrong time of the year for me, but I will keep this in my mind and will contact you in the new year on this matter. If that's OK?

[Nina]

That's fine, of course, Daniel.
Isn't it nice to have some sunshine for a change -- my tortoises were pouting but have really enjoyed the sun over the last few days.

Nina

[Daniel]

Yes the weather was really nice, and very warm. But in reality we all know that winter is just around the corner. Let's hope we have reasonable weather until at least the end of the month, as summer has been a bit of a let down this year.

[DeanaJacobs]

To prevent him from focusing on the soil or moss, try offering more plant-based food options, like dandelion greens, clover, or other tortoise-safe herbs and grasses.

[dispent]

Nina wrote:
> We'll keep you in mind if we get an Ibera for rehoming (you can look at the
> rehoming section on this forum, but it's probably better to look at our
> Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/TheTortoiseTable .
>
> I have a friend in Kent who keeps, and I think breeds Egyptian tortoises,
> and I could check with her to see if she sells them. She would be very
> particular as to where they went, but as you have long experience with
> Egyptians it might be an option. Do you want me to ask her?
>
> Nina

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