Hermann or Horsefield?

[lornagraymartinalov]

Hiya,
I’ve had my tortoise for about two years, after rehoming her from sadly not the best care (don’t worry she’s doing brilliantly), and have been looking into possibly getting a second one. Read that horsefields are best on their own so thought that was a no go, which is fine.
After more research I have stumbled across the possibility that she might be an hermann and might have been accidentally incorrectly advertised on the rehoming site. Could anyone advise based on these photos whether she is a hermann or horsefield?
Thank you very much in advance

[Nina]

Hi Lorna,

Thanks for contacting us. So she was advertised as a Horsfield? She's definitely not a Horsfield and looks very like a Hermann's to me. I'm not sure where you read that Horsfields should be kept on their own, because that's not true (I have two female Horsfields who get on really well), and in that respect I don't tihnk Horsfields are different from any other species.

What you can't have is one male and one female together, because the male will constantly harrass the female (this goes for all species) and will stress her out. Do you know how old she is, and if she is definitely female? If you can tell us her age and also send a photo of her underside, clearly showing the tail, we can sex her for you (but if she is younger than 5 or 6 years old then it's difficult to sex and not as accurate). So you can have two females together, but usually not two males, and never a male and a female. You can have one male and two or more females (so that while one female is being harrassed the other has a break), and that can work well, but then you need the space for three or more tortoises), but never one male and one female.

Tortoises of most species live pretty happily on their own (in the wild they tend to live on their own and come together to mate).

Nina

[lornagraymartinalov]

Thank you for getting back to me, and for educating me further on the keeping of pairs, I really appreciate the patience and response
Well she was advertised as female and, when I thought she was a horsefield, I thought this to be definitely true as the males and females had very different tails, and hers resembles a female horsefields. Not sure if Hermanns are the same (female short, male longer). I don’t currently have a photo of her underside but can get one once I’m home from work
She was advertised as 4.5 yrs so would be coming up on 7 now, although now that I know they advertised her as the wrong breed I’m not sure I’d trust them on the age aha.

[Nina]

You are right in thinking that females have shorter stubbier tails than males -- although many young tortoises tend to look female until they reach a certain age and their tail grows. You can sometimes tell by shape of the 'V' in the anal scute too, so I look forward to seeing your photos, but there's no hurry.

Here's a good care sheet for Hermann's tortoises, and please do come back with any more questions (and what's her name by the way?)
https://www.tortoise-protection-group.o ... 014New.pdf

Nina

[lornagraymartinalov]

Hiya, here’s a picture of her tail!
Her name is Polly!
Thank you again for your response and all the tips, very helpful

[Nina]

Hi Lorna,
Polly looks like a female to me. The cloaca (the hole in their tail where everything comes out of) in females looks a bit like an asterisk, and in males it looks like a slit or dash, plus males have longer tails that curve around to the side when they're walking. However, the anal scute is a broad 'U' or 'V' shape and more like a male, rather than a sharper 'V' that you see with females. However, if she is really 7 years old then I would say female for sure, as she is old enough to tell the sex. And now you don't have to change her name to Paul!

Nina

[lornagraymartinalov]

I was pretty sure, but great to have it confirmed! Very glad her name doesn’t have to change
What’s the rules on mixing breeds, like could a female hermann and horsefield get on just fine? or is it just a hermann she’d do well with?

[Nina]

Unfortunately, you really can't mix species. There is a chance that one species carries pathogens that are harmless to it but could be dangerous to another species, but also different species have different mating behaviour -- some are biters and some are rammers. So in a species where the male rams the female with his shell when attempting to mate her, the female of that species will have a stronger shell that will withstand the violence of the ramming. However in another species where the male bites the female in the run up to mating, the female's shell might not withstand the ramming from a different species. These things won't absolutely happen, but it's possible and it's just not wise to ever mix species in the same way that you could have two or three different breeds of dog living together happily -- it's not quite the same for tortoises.

Nina

[harrystyles]

Hermann tortoises typically have a more dome-shaped and higher shell, with vibrant yellow and black patterns, and they usually grow larger, reaching sizes of about 6 to 12 inches. Their plastron often has a pronounced central hinge. In contrast, Horsefield tortoises have a flatter, more oval shell that tends to be brownish or olive in color, and they are generally smaller, measuring around 5 to 10 inches. Their plastron has a less pronounced hinge. Additionally, Horsefields are better adapted to arid environments and can be more social, though they are often kept alone to reduce stress